Episode 9
33

Marguerite de la Rocque de Roberval: An Unjust Footnote

Published June 6, 2025

Marguerite de la Rocque de Roberval's story of being marooned on an island off of Newfoundland in 1542 is something that amazes everyone who hears it but she keeps getting shunted to a footnote in the story of the early colonization of Canada.

About This Episode

Marguerite de la Rocque de Roberval's story of being marooned on an island off of Newfoundland in 1542 is something that amazes everyone who hears it but she keeps getting shunted to a footnote in the story of the early colonization of Canada.

Transcript
Full transcript of this episode
Hi, and welcome back to Maple History. I'm Christina Austin, and today I have my husband, Simon. Yet again. Yeah. So today we are going to do, it's going to be a shorter episode for a couple of reasons. Next episode, I'm going to be getting into Champlain, and I need time to get into Champlain, because there's a lot of material. It takes a lot of time to cover that. Secondly, it was dance recital weekend, and I think I'm still exhausted. So our seven-year-old daughter is in competitive dance, or whatever that is. Sweet. Any dance parents out there know exactly what I'm talking about, or any parent whose kid is into any high-level, intense activity. Competitive anything. Yeah. So this week's just going to be Snax-Aced. Yeah, it's probably, well, we'll see how long it takes. Anyways, so we're going to get into someone who is a perpetual footnote in history. I'll tell you all about her. So first let's revisit Karche and Robert Val. So just to recap, Karche came in his first voyage to Canada in 1534, and that's when he kidnapped Domagaya and Tainoane. And the next year, 1535, is when he brought them back, and that's when all the scurvy fun happened, and when he went to Hochilaga, and that's where we get the Kanata heritage moment. And then he kidnapped Domagaya, Tainoane, and why did I blank on that other name? Donna Kona. Donna Kona. Oh my god. Okay, listen, it's been a week. It's Monday, but it's been a week. Okay, so that's what happened, and then he was going to come back the next year, but he didn't because the King of France went to war with the King of Spain for reasons. When he was going to be in charge of a neck, he was commissioned to do another mission to Canada to really start the French settlement. But he got kind of sidelined by Jean-Francois de la Rock de Robert Valle, and he was commissioned to be the leader of the expedition, is that the term? Sure. So, no. Colonizing? Yeah, he was colonizing. He was a friend of the King, generally, just a terrible person, and we'll get into why. In a moment, he was shit with money, he was a pirate slash privateer, and he was happily murdered in 1560. Now, why I really don't like him is because we're today we're talking about Margarit de la Rock de Robert Valle. I'm just going to jump in and say, I read like a tiny little bit of this story, and I'm so excited to hear about this one. This one's amazing. Yeah, and I'm so irritated with myself that I missed it, which I think is really indicative of what happens to this story over and over again. So, Margarit, I'll tell you the story as we think it might be, and then there's going to be a couple of different versions, and then there's lots of fictionalized accounts of her. Because she's amazing. Yeah, she's so much better than Jean-Francois. So Margarit, we don't know when she was born, maybe 1530s, something like that, or anyways, 1520, 1530, we don't know how old she was when she enters our story, which is in 1542. She had lands in Perigore and Langdok, and we know this because she pledged fealty to the king in 1536, so that's how we got a record of her name and what her lands were. And she is a relative of Robert Valle. Okay. We don't know cousin, sister, niece, somewhere they are related because they say they have the same name. And she is on the voyage in 1542 with Robert Valle. I didn't know that she had lands, so she must have been reasonably well off. Yeah. She owned property. Yeah. As a woman. As a woman. And then she still got on this ship for this adventure. Wow. Okay. So, why she got on, we don't know. We don't have a record of that. But because Robert Valle was her relative, an older male relative, she was probably under his control. Yeah. It's not very often that even a French normal woman would have full control of her own property. Sometimes. Yeah. Depends, but just it's unlikely. Yeah. Especially an unmarried, like perhaps like a widowed person. A woman could have control, but she was not married. So fair. So she is on this ship in 1542. So this is the one where Robert Valle and Cartier meet up in Newfoundland and then Cartier gives him the slip, which was great. Like Ballermo, good for you. Take your little children's museums or treasures of little gold. Well, he thought he was loaded, so he wanted to cut and run. Yeah. Good for you. Yes. And he lived happily ever after at his estate. So good for him. Still think he kind of sucks, but that doesn't matter. So Margarita's on this ship. So why don't know? And while she's on this ship, she had an affair with someone. He's never named in any record. Okay. So some people say a soldier. Some people say one of the colonists. I just don't know. She got a little lonely on the ship and needed some affectionate attention. And that's totally fine. Yeah. But Robert Valle was a new Protestant, so like hardcore. Oh, okay. Yeah. So some say that he could have been a Calvinist, which I think some of the Hugonauts were. Calvinists are, they're very, how to explain Calvinist. They're very stuffy. Okay. And they Calvinists believe that your not future, your fate is foretold. God has already decided you're going to, you know, you just do what you're supposed to do and you're going to die whenever God has already decided. Okay. So it's kind of a fatalist kind of way. It's very, I don't know exactly. I read snippets about the different early Protestant schools of thought, like the Lutherans and the Calvinists and whatever. Okay. I don't know that much about it. Whatever. All right. Anyways, so, and this is early days of the Reformation as well. Yeah. So to be a Protestant would be something else. You would, you would have, you certainly would have the fervor of the newly converted and like to the nth degree. Yep. So he found out about this affair and decided that he was going to Maroon, Marguerite, her lover and Marguerite's maid off an island off of Newfoundland or on an island off of Newfoundland. So effectively a Desens. That was his plan. Yeah. So I've read in some of the little snippets of a, of accounts of the story that, that maybe he did it because he didn't care if she died. Mm hmm. Because he was in control of her property anyways. Oh, okay. So that's a, that's, this is anything that there's very little information. Yeah. So all of that is just conjecture. So I don't know. Nobody knows. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a possibility. Sure. Is he was like, he was a greedy bugger. So, and he kept like blowing all his money. Yeah. Like, looting it. So why not lower money? Yeah. So they're marooned on the Isle of Demons. Okay. That's what they call it in the, in all the accounts. Do we know, do we know where that is? Some say it's near the mouth of the Riviera St. Paul off the coast. Some say it's this island called Quirpon Island or Harrington Harbor, which is off the coast of, which on Quebec that were on the Quebec side. Okay. Could be Belle Isle. But it's like off the coast of the country. Yeah. So, okay. So it's not going to get, it's not like an island on a river or anything like that. It's, it's one of the. No, it's ocean. Oh, wow. Okay. So you're not getting off that? No. And yeah, it's not, it's not like there's, it's not like the, your near peninsula and it's going to freeze over and then you can go. But I mean, what good would that do anyways? Yeah. Even if you got off the island, where are you going to go? There's also no record that she met any indigenous people. Because I mean, there's lots of little islands and whatever, right? You know, that's, that's not a densely populated area in that zone. Yeah. So if she had gone down, say the St. Lawrence and been cast off, people would have found her. Yeah. And did you know what a founder? She might have been able to like get in with them. Yeah. Like get rescued kind of. Yeah. Because generally I don't think they would, they don't, they don't just kill random people. Yeah. Like there's usually a purpose. So she's marooned on the island with her unnamed boyfriend and her, her maid, her name was Demian. Okay. And I think that the two characters that we have are Marguerite and Demian and some dude. Yeah. This unnamed man. That's true. Doesn't matter. It's just like another bit of her story that makes her just such, well, I won't ruin it, but like it's just me reading. So, so they got, they gave them, rubber valve gave some supplies and a couple, or arch-boosts like basically shotguns. Okay. Yeah. Like a blender bus type of thing, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But just a fancier French, it's more French. A French gun. Yeah. Or a bunch of French guns. Yeah. So, and powder and shot and so, so she had that. Some accounts say two, some say four. It doesn't matter. She had weapons and a sword. Okay. And probably, you know, some knife, a knife. Hopefully a knife and an axe or something. Yeah. Yeah. It's built some kind of shelter. Probably, like, yeah, probably something like that. So they lived together for a while on this island. The boyfriend made a shelter for them. Demian, who is, was a servant. So she's super useful. Yeah. Because she would know how to do things at least. So in like, well, and you know, if she worked in the kitchen, like, you tear the birds apart and chickens and cut things up. Anyways, be super useful person to have around. But she was older. Mm-hmm. So Marguerite wouldn't have been as useful at the start. But then things start going after about eight months. Things start going south fast. So the boyfriend dies. Okay. We don't know how. Could be anything. Like, get a little, oh, could be cold. Just the cold could have like gotten. Yeah. Like scurvy. Yeah. Who knows? She had a baby. Okay. And then the baby died. Oh, rough. Yeah. Oh, I'm actually going to go back. So when in the story that's told, two things. And one of the stories, one of the guys, Andre Tvet, he told the story that it was Marguerite and the maid that got marooned and then the lover dove in the water to swim to join them. Okay. It's romantic. Okay. I mean, that's a good story. Yes. So anyways, he died. And then when he died, she defended his corpse because he died in the winter from a bear. Oh, and shot the bear. Wow. So got a bear. And in the story that Andre Tvet, it's a polar bear. No. It's a bear as white as an egg. Oh, yeah. My goodness. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, that's like the most terrifying bear that you can encounter on that part of the, in that part of other than what is the grizzly, the biggest one? No, the polar bear. Oh, isn't it? The saying is black, no, black fight back. Yeah. Because like they're, they're basically like huge raccoons. Okay. So black, black fight back. So yeah, they're the, they're the one where it's like they're smaller and not like really aggressive. Like you're going to get into. Why are they friend shaped if we can't pet the friend kind of, you know, that like they're a little more cuddly. Yeah. Unless there's like, unless there's still a bear, but, but it's unless they're, unless they're kind of bear, don't worry. Yeah. Brown lie down because like it's going to, if it wants you like play dead, basically like you're, um, don't never, never try to run from there or anything like that. White. Good night. Cause you're dead. Yeah. Cause it's going to hunt you. One of the only animals, like one of the few animals, uh, that hunts people. Yeah. Like lions. Yeah. And they're absolutely massive. They're like 12 feet tall stretch dude. Yes. Is absurd. Well, there we go. Marguerite. Absolute queen. So took care of that. So then the baby died and then Demi-en died. Yeah. So then she is alone on the island of demons. Yes. And then she becomes an islanding because she starts to lose it. Well if it's an island that has polar bears on it. Yeah. It's also a cold, cold, cold winter. Yeah. And a hot summer. Yeah. And cause different would, if you're that far south, like you get that, that massive fluctuation, right? Yes. Like a Newfoundland Labrador weather. So she continues to live and she lives for about a year on this island alone. Wow. When some Basque fishermen or Breton, we don't know, maybe Breton, Basque are similar. Anyways, but I'm going to say Basque because I find they're my friends from previous St. Lawrence of your co-episode. I like the Basque. So they find her and she looks like a witch. Oh yeah. Like just, just totally bonkers. Yeah. Hair everywhere. Clothes are all crazy. Clothes are, clothes are rags wearing skins. Yeah. Honestly, if she's wearing that bear skin. Oh, Marguerite, yes. So they take her back to France. Wow. And then she ends her days teaching girls. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. And so the, how we know this story, there's two ways. The first is from Marguerite of Navarre, the queen of Navarre. She is the king's sister. Okay. And she's like a queen of a little area. I don't know where Navarre is, but somewhere in Europe. Okay. So she's the queen. Anyways, and so she is also Protestant. Okay. Or at least leaning Protestant. So she, and she wrote this story of, forget how many, but anyways, I'm kind of these moralizing fables. Yeah. And Marguerite's story is number 67 of the Heptamaran. The Heptamaran is the title of this collection of stories. Okay. And that was in 1558. In her version, it's Robert Val who told her about this. Oh. But that is, I mean, there's a possibility because he would have known that Marguerite was back. Well, he, and he, he knew about this. He knew what happened. He knew he abandoned her. Yeah. But because Robert Val was still a friend of the king, anything she wrote needed to play nice. Oh, of course. Yeah. Because she, she's a woman and he's the king of France. And that's just what you had to do. Yeah. And her story is, it's not what the story I just told you. In her version, it's a fictionalized version, which is very moralizing, as I mentioned. It's. Is that what the Heptamaran is? It's like moral tales? Pretty much. Okay. Yeah. So she. Why is it called the Heptamaran? I don't, I don't know. Hepts usually means seven. Yeah. So maybe it's, maybe there's like 70 some odd, I don't know. Yeah, it could be. There was more than 67. So it's like there was 70, I forget exactly. Might have been 75. Okay. Her story is that there was an artisan, one of the settlers who betrays Robert Val somehow possibly related to Cartier. So because of this betrayal, he's putting this artisan guy, this like, you know, like a carpenters like that. Okay. Off the ship and marooning and hit and the wife who she was a very beautiful wife is Marguerite. Okay. The wife. But she's not named like she's not named in the story. In the Heptamaran. Right. Oh, okay. So she as a beautiful wife goes with him. Yes. Okay. He dies of what from drinking foul water because whatever and he starts swelling and then he dies. Okay. And she survives fighting off lions. Lions. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But also through the strength of her faith and prayer. Oh, okay. That's how she drives. Well, to be fair, I bet you it really helped the real Marguerite as well. Yeah, probably would have. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you are lose hope, right? And in a extremely religious society, when you start losing your marbles on your own on an island full of terrors. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she leaned into prayer. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Polar bears are 100% monsters. Yeah. Like they are the stuff of nightmares. Yeah. So that's the queen of Navarro's story version. Okay. So this very moralizing, lovely tale of wifely duty with a disloyal husband. Anyway, so she survives. Oh, and Robert Val is the one who rescues her in that story. Oh, of course. Yeah. You rescue her even though he put her. Yeah. But because he was really just marooning the husband and he was dead. So that's fine. He can bring her back. Yeah. Okay. So it puts him in a good light. I also like that there's a little day of Cartier there though that you said as well. They're like, I don't know. It might have been because this guy was associated with Cartier. Yeah. Like just another little. They didn't like each other. Yeah. No. And, but it also has hints of what actually happened with Robert Val's settlement. Okay. As in, you know, it's kind of a little mild reference to the scurvy, right? The guy. The swelling and the privations and the cold and hunger and things like that. So it's that is telling that story in a subtle way as well because that would have been very known in that level of society. Yeah. It wouldn't, it wouldn't have been kind of pop culture. It would have been high level. Yeah. And, and they wouldn't have known what caused scurvy, right? No, they thought it was bad water or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Cartier thought it was lack of fresh meat. Oh, okay. Yeah. But I don't know if you get vitamin C from meat. I don't think you do, but I don't, I could be wrong. I'm not a nutritionist, but I think you can get it from awful. Maybe. Like, yeah. Like organ meat and stuff. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm not sure though. I know you can get vitamin A from a polar bear liver, but it will kill you. Yes. In a hurry. Yeah. So much OD on vitamin A. Yeah. So, so that's that story. And so that was published after the queen of Navarre died in 1558. Okay. And so the main story that we get is from Andre Tvette. He was a priest in a void, like a lord, your kind of traveler guy. And he says that he got the story from Marguerite. Oh, okay. Nice. Probably didn't. Doesn't matter. What we can't. How can you tell? I mean, he can, he could have heard it from some of the people that were on the voyage. Yeah. Like, like the, the navigator or the pilot or some, like, or someone, like the second in command. Anyways, he could have heard it from them. So he wrote the story down. And that's where we get kind of the details of the, the diving in the water. But that could be a mistranslation. Probably didn't dive in the water because you're still, it's still the North Atlantic. Yes. It's not great for, for a dip. And you get the part about the three killing link. I think it was two or three bears. Oh, wow. So, and protecting the bodies. Yeah. Being devoured by the bears and other wildlife and things like that. And you definitely get a lot about her going crazy and hearing demons. Okay. So it could have just been the hordes of birds that land on those little islands and different, and different seasons. And also it gets very foggy. So if there's hordes of birds and it's very foggy and you're hearing these squawks all the time. If you're, if you're out in the wilderness. Yeah. And it is like, and you're quiet, there's so much noise around you. Yeah. Like even like chipmunks and squirrels and stuff like that. It is, it can be very loud. Yes. Well, that's why I don't go camping. So I don't have to worry about that. I'm not going. So his, he wrote his story in call and something called the cosmography universal. And that's kind of it's, it's, it's got a whole bunch of stuff. She's just put one part of it. It's all like, it's a travel log and different. He was a priest and he, so he was, he was very learned and fellow and it's kind of like, I skim through it to find her story. And it was kind of like a brain dump of all the stuff he knew about. Mm hmm. Like North America and other stuff with different theology things mixed in there and just kind of everything. Okay. So whatever. He was fine. So yeah, that's where we get the stories. And there was another one. There's a couple other little things here and there, but then we really get, there's been a lot of modern fiction and I get it still just completely obscure to me that I'd never heard of her and I pay attention to history. Yeah. Yeah. But so. I, I, the only reason I know about her is I read about her in that she was a little story in that I was like Canada and 12 maps or something like that. Oh, was it okay? Or like whatever. I'm getting the number wrong, but yeah, that book about Canada and maps. Yeah. She was in there. It was fascinated by it. Yeah. That's on my list of one street, but I haven't got it yet. Okay. So she in modern fiction in 20, sorry, in 2003 Douglas Glover wrote a novel called L and that one that Governor General's award. I haven't read that one, but apparently got like it's kind of weird. There's like mystical stuff happening and there's indigenous women who are there. Anyways, sounds very interesting. So it, I'll probably put that on my list and then I can go to the two foot stack of books that I still need to read. I did read slash listen to the auto book of Isola by Allegra Goodman. That came out this year in 2025 and it's one of Reese Witherspoon's book club books. Okay. And that is very much like a straight up historical fiction book. Nice. Okay. Historical fiction biography book and it starts with Marguerite as a child and it goes until her becoming a teacher. I'm not doing a spoiler of the book because I just told you the story of what happened. Yes. And it seems that it's trying to play true to it. She did a good job of being historically accurate. I mean, she took some license here and there and you get the name of the lover. Okay. I'm not going to tell you the name because that would spoil the book is you don't know where he's coming from. I mean, it's not, he's not a sneak attack. It's just so yeah, it just pops up on the boat. Yeah. It gives, it gives you the historical background and the cultural background of what her status would have looked like. And it's hard for me to, because I'm reading all these like all these little sources, like there's not much. There's like that little short story in the heptamaran. It's not long. Yeah. It's like a couple pages. Yeah. The primary sources are thin, right? Yeah. And then there's like a couple pages from Andre Tovet to Vay, Tovet, whatever from him. And then there was one other one, but honestly it was, it was like a little footnote. It wasn't, it didn't really have any new information. It's enough that we know, because it's three separate sources, I would say it's like, it's enough that we know that it happened. Yeah. She existed. We just don't know the details. Yeah. About the why and the who of the boyfriend. There's always a male involved and historians generally think that it probably happened. And that's why you say it would probably happen. I couldn't swear to it. Yeah. No, that's fair. Like I don't know. Is it possible that you could survive in the Canadian wilderness is just like a throuple? Yeah. Oh, damn it. Don't, I like damn it. And she's not, she's done it on this. Okay. Yeah. A couple in a servant. A servant. Like is that, is that possible? Yeah. Because people did. It's going to be real hard though. Real cold, real hard. Yeah. But it wasn't a barren island. They had wood, right? They had wood to burn. They had a shelter. They could have made a shelter. Yeah, they made. And they'd survived a winter already. Yeah. So they knew it wasn't like a big surprise. Yeah. So in the, it's not that the lover boyfriend, whatever you want to call him, died during the winter when the ground was frozen. So that's why she was protecting the body because she couldn't bury it. Yeah. That was the kind of thought. Again, you don't really get an answer about why the baby died, but you could see why the baby would die. Oh, yeah. Right. With food being scarce, you can't make milk. You're, it's cold. Yeah. Sure, they had the furs, which is good. But again, I mean infant mortality in a wealthy household with all the trappings of a person. Upper classness, they, they died, like 50% died. Yeah. So it's not a surprise that baby died. And yeah, an older servant. Yeah. I mean, sure. Like anything could happen. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Marguerite lived. And then there's like, there's some plays that have been written and performed. There was one in 2015. There is another book, Silence of Stone by Anne Marie Bechle from 2010. So it's like constant. Yeah. And I read online that there is a French show or movie that's being done, like a France French and it's so French. Yeah, they're, they're making it interesting. She, the premise of the story is that she gets raped and then she's marooned on the island with her rapist. Oh, okay. Like, okay. Like make it dark. Sure. Make it look like, okay, fine. I mean, but I guess if he's probably going to die, so that was good. So yeah, so that that's in the works. You know, Reese Witherspoon has the book. So who knows if she's going to do something with it. Yeah. I mean, that would be fine. That'd be great. And it was interesting listening to Leggra Goodman's author's note about it and how she was on holiday with her children and she was reading them a, like a nonfiction book about Canadian history or French. I think they were in Quebec or something like that. And she read this little, little bit. Yeah. This little like, and he, she's like, whoa, what is this? And then it kept rumbling around in her brain and, you know, she had little kids. So it's, she's busy. Yeah. And it just kept percolating through her mind. And so she decided to finally write the novel. It's kind of like Marguerite just keeps getting ruined. And then we find her again. And then there she, oh, she's off on the island. And then she gets discovered again by, like over and over again. And she just can't quite get into the main memory of society of, you know, Canadian or even French society of, of who she is, like we should know Marguerite de La Ronde de Robert Valle, Jacques Cartier, Donna Cona, Chinoane, D'omagaya, and Jean-Foure-Soua de La Ronde de Robert Valle. Yeah. Like all of those names, we should know them, not just Cartier. Yeah. Who we know. Robert Valle gets like an honorary mention. So like if you're like, if you really know, paid attention in history class, you probably know Robert Valle, but you never knew Donna Cona. No. Like I didn't know his name. No. So yeah, I'm, I want Marguerite de Robert Valle up there. And Donna Cona. And that same conversation. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And not just the losers. They just, they sucked so bad. Like he hit Robert Valle in particular. And because Cartier didn't tell him any of his like tricks of the white spruce to stave off scurvy. And apparently he was a terrible leader anyways. Like he was a brutal leader, which makes sense. Like that he was not. There's no other way to control people. Yeah. So he just does it through brutality. Yeah. Like that's a common, like that's common. That's a common. It's a common trait of like bad bosses. Yes. Yeah. Just even today. And it doesn't seem like Cartier was quite like that. I mean, I think I'm sure he was brutal to a degree, but he seemed to have some more loyalty of his crew. Yeah. I'm sure Robert Valle had loyalty of loyalty was crew too, but the loyalty that you get by being brutalized by fear. Yeah. And settlers would have just hated him. But they were under his command because he was the lieutenant general of New France. Yes. From the king. So he is the king's agent and the French people, they would have been very loyal to the king. They would have just dealt with it. It would have been awful. So yeah, that's the story of Marguerite. Dela Rocte de Robert Valle. All right. Riveting. She should be taught, why don't we taught like early settlement Canadian history? I don't know. They changed it, which is fine. I'm fine that they changed. They were 18 years old. They were in elementary school. Yeah, it was definitely a elementary school. Anyways, tell everybody about Marguerite Dela Rocte de Robert Valle. And awesome. She was killing bears and surviving on her own for two years. So she was there from 1542 to rescued in probably the spring of 1544. Yeah. Wow. Just surviving, living off the land. Going a little crazy, but. Yeah, I think she went a little crazy, but that's okay. She got there in the end. Yep. She went home. Nice. She died an older woman. Yeah, back in France. So good for her. Okay. So like and subscribe, share on, I'm on Instagram, Maple History Pod. I'm also on TikTok. Same, not on the other one. You know which one I'm talking about. And if you can do one thing, just tell another friend. Just spread like word of math. That really, really helps. Yeah. Just share it on social if you feel like it. But if not, I get it. You do have a thing on your social. What if it makes you happy? Okay. Thanks. Bye.
Episode Info
Episode
9
Duration
33
Published
June 6, 2025