Hi and welcome back to Maple History. I'm Christina Austin and Simon is here with me again.
Your constant foil. Oh Henry's here too. He's on the bed. So I will be organizing other
guests to come back to chat soon but it's summer and I've been barely hanging on since
May. And that's Henry scratching himself in the background.
So with this episode it feels like we're entering phase two. I've laid the groundwork
for who the nations were in Canada a little bit. And now the Europeans are fully entering
into their colonizing era of North America. We had Cartier and Robert Val taking the
L on their firefest style colony back in 1542 to 43. And after that there was annual fishing
trips to Newfoundland by the French and Vask sailors. And they kept in fairly continuous
contact with the indigenous people there. So today we're getting into Champlain. So it's
enter Champlain stage right? Yeah. There's a bunch of characters who start things off
from because there's like 50 years or so but things kind of ramp up that we'll get there.
So there was all those fishing and for collecting trips. Yeah. They would go there and they'd
have some camps and then they'd come back. Was it Beaver at this time or no? Did that
come later? No they had Beaver but it was all any pelts. So there really wasn't any
efforts to start up at Colony until 1577 when Marquis de La Roche, who actually has a
much longer name but it's ridiculously aristocratic. Not French. Not the rock guy. No different
guy. Different guy. So this is de la Roche and the other guy was de la rock. Okay. Yeah.
Just I figured because it's like we're talking 50 years in the future. So I assume it's a
different way. Yeah. This guy's long dead. Francois de la Roche is like he had a good being killed.
So in the history books they always call him Robert Val and they call this guy La Roche.
Even though that Robert Val went by La Roche in his own time. So I guess it's like the history
books kind of screw you. You're not going with your preferred name. So yeah La Roche.
Basically what he's doing is he was going to take a commission. He was taking over the
commission that had been given to Robert Val which was to colonize areas for Catholicism
and the king while keeping a major cut of the take. Was he Protestant too? No he was Catholic.
No. Okay. All right. True believer. Yeah. So La Roche was a courtier of Henry III. So
he had all the right connections. I mean the king is always in this game like you can't
get anything without his approval. Yeah. So he got the commission and he really didn't
do anything with it for five or six years. And then in 1584 he got about 300 colonists
organized ahead to Canada. But his lead ship fell apart. Oh. To the coast of France.
And they're like whoa. Dope. Didn't make it far. Wow. Okay. No, no. In 1588 Jacques Noel
Cartier's nephew. He got a 12 year monopoly for Canada from the king. This didn't last
because there was squabbling among the merchants and the king relented and revoked the monopoly
which basically pushed Noel out because he didn't make any money. So there was there
was back and forth efforts of Noel and some successful fur trading voyages and La Roche.
Finally had a go at creating a French colony in 1598. But basically Noel's out. He bounced
when he he didn't get the deal he wanted. Yeah. So that's the end of the Cartier's
in the colonization. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, well, with a nephew. He had to go creating the colony
in 1598. He tries again. He gets 250 settlers from from among what historian Marcel Tudeil
describes as beggars and vagabonds. Of course. Yeah. So you know, this is going to go really well.
Yeah. It's going to be great. So they ship out to Sable Island, which is an island off of Nova
Scotia. That's the one that La Roche chose. Okay. Reasons. Bad reasons. Turns out. Why would you
go to an island? Well, it was defensible. I don't. I guess. So La Roche goes with them at the outset,
but he goes home to France before winter. Okay. Smart. Things go okay for a couple of years
because La Roche keeps sending a supply ship every year. But they miss sending a supply ship in 1602.
They just forget. Maybe they didn't have money. So they sent one in 1601. They didn't send in 1602
and supply ship returned in 1603. And boy, oh boy, had shit gone down that year.
So they had left 79 people there. Okay. So there were only 11 left. Wow.
Were they like eating each other? Like, was it that bad? No, but they had assassinated or murdered
the commander and the chief, kind of the quartermaster. Yeah, a quartermaster.
So they, you know, off to them. Obviously a bunch of them died, but then a bunch of them just
buggered off. So they just probably went with indigenous people. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's why
there's only 11 left. So the 11 surviving colonists returned to France and they told a
story to the king that convinced the king that they're like, oh, they were good. Yay. It wasn't us.
And they got a pardon. But I'm like, why do you need a pardon? What'd you do? From killing the
quartermaster or from messing up the colony or whatever. Oh, okay. Whatever happened. It was like,
were the good ones? Yes. We stayed and tried to defend the fort and yeah. Yeah. So they got a
pardon. And the records of that whole saga were pretty sketchy. And the story did not come out
beyond that it was just a failure until the 1880s when the like historians are
they found it in the records or something? Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, whoa,
because they were just like, oh, yeah, LaRoches, your colony failed. Oh, well. So LaRoches is out.
And in steps Pierre Chauvet du tantuis, Protestant. Okay. And he gets the exclusive monopoly to
trade in Canada and spread Catholicism. I don't know if he had to do that. Oh, okay.
His Henry IV was a Protestant at different times. He went on and took it back and forth.
All right. So Henry IV waffled about that monopoly and gave into LaRoches complaints about it and
sort of gave them both a deal at the same time. Okay. So LaRoches is still kind of how a monopoly
works. I know. Listen, it was. Give them a duopoly? It was very messy. If you really want the nitty
gritty on those details, Marcel Trudeau's book, The Beginning is of New France, 1524 to 1663.
Go there. All right. It's one of the old history books, one of the foundational books that you
kind of read. He's one of the early historians. I think that one was written in the 60s.
Okay. Yeah. And he's French, Trudeau is French Canadian. Okay. So and everything. So his books
have been translated to so yeah, spoiler, Chauvin's attempts fail to. So Chauvin's first voyage was
in spring of 1600. On this trip, there are two important people who will be vital for the future
success of Champlain. So we have Francois, Grave du Paul, aka Paul Grave. That's what I'm going to
call him from now on. Okay. Okay. And Pierre du Gua de Mo aka de Mo de Mo.
Annoyingly in David Hackett Fisher's book, Champlain's Dream, instead of D like the M-O-N-T-S,
he has M-O-N-S, which is fair. It's like Americanizing it like because it's Mo is like, he's from the
mountains, like he's like of the mountains, right? It's like, like, is this the same guy? So it took
me a bit. Oh yeah, that's very annoying. Anyways, it's Dumont with a T. Yeah, of course,
because it's French. Anyway, so Paul Grave was an experienced sailor, a merchant, a soldier.
He'd already been to Canada and traded with the Indigenous people. And in both these books and
other ones, he's a very jolly fellow. Okay. So Paul Grave, he's like jolly as a like, he's got a big
belly and he's like, yeah, like, yeah. Like he has a bit of a, yeah.
Yeah, what's that? What's that? Apple brandy? Anyways, he likes that one. I forgot what it's called.
Anyways, he likes that. Okay. He has a temper, but whatever. Like everyone likes him. He's very,
very successful. He's a big fat guy, he's got a bright red nose for the alcohol. He's really jolly.
Probably does have a, he probably is, I mean, because they drink a lot, right? Yeah,
and it wasn't the best quality stuff. Oh, it's still pretty good. I mean, they're rich, right?
Mm, that's true. That's true. Because it's distilled. It's still brandy. Yeah.
If you know any Shakespeare, he's considered the, the false stuff of
Champlain's kind of colonizing events. So false stuff was in Henry the
fifth, Henry IV and Henry the fifth. And he's like this jolly kind of, but like wise and
because he's older than Champlain. I'm not going to go into too much details about him in this
episode because he's, he plays a big part in Quebec. Okay. So we'll get to him.
So Dumont doesn't really play a big role in this voyage, but he will later. And Champlain's not on
this one either. So Chauvin chose Taidu-Sak as the place where he wanted to plant the colony.
So this had been a trading position. Okay. Like the indigenous people, like they had
Cartier knew about it. Like it was like, it's that port. So it was a thing. Where's that now?
It's Taidu-Sak. That's Taidu-Sak. Okay. I don't know where Taidu-Sak is. And go back.
That's live research. It's before you get to Quebec City and it's at the mouth of the Saginaw
River. North Shore of the St. Lawrence River, west of the Saginaw. Yeah. Right at the mouth of
the Saginaw. Yep. So he chose this because it was a fairly well-established trading point.
And his goal was to make money and trade. Yeah. And that was, that was it. But he did not have a
good understanding of how spectacularly shitty winter is in Quebec. They not know still. I know.
Like compared to, because they're like, oh, it's on the same, we're on the same longitude,
or latitude as France was fine. France is great in winter. I'm like, okay. Whoops.
So anyways, he had buggered back off to France anyways before winter sit in, leaving 16 men there.
And then the only way the men survived that winter was because of the assistance of the
indigenous people again. So it was mainly the Inu. They call them the Montagnier often,
but they're the Inu as they were the ones who controlled that area during that time period. So
before it would have been the St. Lawrence Iroquois or the Dakonans, all those people,
but they had, they'd gone, which listened to the other episode about the disappearance of the St.
Lawrence Iroquois. If you really want to know all the details of them. So anyways, and here's a
fun fact. Tada Sakh is named from the Inu word for that area, Tatu Skak, which means breasts.
Nice. Because of the lovely rolling hills nearby. Nice. Yeah. And I love that for them.
Like that's like the French were like, whoa, boobs. Whoa. Yeah. Okay. We'll keep that name.
Just like the, you know, it was in Wyoming, the grand Teton. The grand Teton.
It was the French fur traders are like, oh, they look like boobs.
So those mountains. Love them. Okay. Good for them. I wonder how many
areas are named here. Lots. Lots. So Chauvin sent to supply ship in 1602,
and they saw what a disaster the Tada Sakh settlement was. It was a failure because of lack of leadership
because he left. Yeah. And and lack of planning for appropriate shelter. Champlain blame Chauvin's
Protestantism. Okay. That was irrelevant.
So yes, Chauvin's attempt failed, but he did succeed in reestablishing France's occupation of what would be an important trading port for what will be new France.
So Chauvin died in 1603. So he takes his bow from the story now. La Roche still had that terrible Sable Island colony and partial monopoly.
Okay. Whatever. And wanted to take over Chauvin as part after he died, but the king gave it to a mar de Chast.
De Chast had served Henry IV with Pongravé and Numal. So all these guys knew each other. It was a small world, especially if you're hanging around the court of Henry IV.
So La Roche was sending his last ship to Sable Island in 1603. And that's the same time that De Chast organized a fleet to go to Canada in March 1603 with Pongravé.
And guess who finally comes into the story. Oh, Champlain. All right. Yeah. So finally, enter Samuel de Champlain. So let's get a bit of a bio covered here.
Just like little sketch where he's from. So he was born probably around 1570. Okay.
We don't know. Different historians pick different dates, but we'll go 1570.
Records were at the best back then. Yeah. Fisher has a theory of why. Oh, okay. You have good records. So he's born in Brouage, probably.
His mother's family may have been Huguenotz. Okay.
Protestants. His father was a mariner. He was a pilot. And then he eventually became a captain. Also, he was like a sea-faring man.
Yeah. But not a grunt. So eventually became captain and had a decent amount of success in his life. He was fairly good at his job.
Samuel spent most of his life in the town called St. Olos and considered that his hometown. He was a man of St. Olos. Everyone called him that.
It is also kind of from Brouage, but whatever, but not that far. So Champlain's biographer, David Hackett Fisher, puts forward a couple interesting, but ultimately really unprovable
theories about Champlain's early life in his book, Champlain's Dream. The first one is related to religion. We talked about before there was a right in the smack.
Smack in the middle of the Reformation and the wars that resulted from that.
Ruiage was a pretty strong Huguenot area and Champlain had family members that were Huguenot.
Fisher believes that Champlain was baptized and raised Protestant, but converted to Catholicism later.
Okay. But there is no doubt that Champlain was a Catholic when he founded Quebec City. He goes into great detail about the religious situation at the time in that area in particular.
There was like a war about it that we already talked about. Yeah. A lot of wars. Yeah. A lot of, yeah.
There was like nine religious wars in that era. Yeah. And I mistakenly thought everyone was getting chucked out of windows.
Yeah. Well, they were. Well, they did. They did get defenestrated. Well, that was 1618, the second
defenestration of Prague. Oh, okay. Not the first. Not the first. I don't think it's the last either because whatever.
So the other gossipy bit in Fisher's book is when he gives an explanation about why the son of a sea captain without a noble birth,
could get the attention of Henry IV so easily. Yeah. So before Henry IV was king, he was Henry of Navarre.
And he's the same Henry of Navarre, whose wedding to the sister of the French king was part of the spark that led to the Saint Barth, Olemies de Massacre.
Okay. So he's in the mix, right? He was Protestant then. Yeah. And then he was forced at Sword Point during the massacre to convert.
Okay. So he lived. Yeah. And then he's like, yeah, I'm Catholic. And he's like, nope, I'm not. Yeah. And he's like, oh, yeah. He probably was Protestant in his heart of hearts, but he was like, whatever.
I get to live. Yeah. And be king. Sure. I'll be Catholic. Spoiler, that's probably why he was assassinated. Okay.
Because Catholic zealot didn't believe him. Yeah. Go figure. Anyways, how he became king, you don't have to listen to a history of France, broadcast to get all that.
So Henry of Navarre was a Protestant, then he converted to Catholicism and then whatever, converted back.
So it was a whole thing. And the theory is that when Henry was visiting his mother who lived near Brouage between 1568 and 1572 when he was a teenage horn dog,
he could have gotten a young woman pregnant. And the baby was adopted by a good family. As any child of someone of that would have been adopted out. So could have been adopted by the Champlain.
Okay. Yeah. So this explains why Samuel does not have any baptismal or birth records.
When they did exist, like there are other ones, right? Yeah. At the time. And why he was given a pension from Henry IV and 1601.
And why he could get a meeting so frequently with the king. Yeah. How else would you?
I think he had a reasonable amount of charisma, but he wasn't that charming. Yeah. Anyways, so that's the theory. Take it for whatever you want.
He's the illegitimate son of a king. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe not. Maybe he's just the son of a sea captain and his lovely wife. Yeah. Don't know.
So Champlain began his life on the sea around age 14, which was pretty normal. His father's footsteps. 14 is not bad, actually. No, it's not. He'd had an education. It's like a university degree. But then.
Yeah. And later moved on to be a non-commissioned officer for Henry IV and one of his wars, who's in Brittany, whatever. Champlain had seen plenty of action in this war.
He would use that battle experience to his advantage in Canada later in later years. So after the war, he was searching for something to do. He wanted to explore for France. He wanted to explore the new world.
Mm-hmm. And really his best bet was with the Spaniards and to go with them. But they had just been fighting each other.
So he wanted to explore for France, but his best bet was to travel with the Spanish. Yeah. On behalf of France. Or part department with the Spanish. Like.
Like spying. Like hit your ride with Spanish. And we're like, yeah, yeah, this is all all come because he has an experienced Mariner, right? Like he has.
Yes, I see. So what he's really doing is trying to further France's.
Interests? Yeah, interest colonizing because they want a piece of the action in the new world. Yeah. His best bet was to go with the Spaniards because they had all those established colonies, right?
Out in Mexico and the Caribbean and Venezuela and all these places, they had been there for 100 years.
Yeah. Whereas France did not have those colonies yet. Yeah. So he managed to find his way to join a ship in 1598. Yeah, he was spying on them to see what they're doing in the new world.
They were always fine with him. Like he was just, he was just exploring with him. He wasn't doing like, he wasn't trying to undermine them or anything like that or sabotage or anything like that. He was just kind of like.
And I'm sure they knew like, you know, you know, you know, but like he's a French guy, like.
But there would have been there would have been a lot of fluidity in that world of like, oh, we need a new navigator.
Mm hmm. We'll take the French guy. I don't care. Whoever's available. Oh, there's a basket. Sure. Let's go. Well, we'll have like, you know, there would have been Spanish people.
It would have been Portuguese people. Like it was the Giovanni Caboto. He was John Cabot. Yeah. For the English. Like, okay.
Like, it didn't really matter. So they were used to that kind of thing. So yeah, he went to the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Mexico,
Isla de Margarita, off the coast and off the coast of Venezuela. And he saw the Pearl mining and they were using slave people and he was really like horrified by what was going on there. It was bad because they have to dive for them. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think they were patient when they needed break. Yes. Gotcha.
But he really noted in Mexico how cruel the Spanish were to the indigenous population, particularly in regards to religion. So they were enslaved and if they did not convert and obey Catholicism, they were tortured and often executed. And Fisher makes the case that it was Champlain's experience with the Spanish in their colonies that drove him to create a more equitable or at the very least a more respectful relationship with the indigenous nations in Canada. Interesting.
Yes. He wanted to convert them to Catholicism because he this was the time. Yeah. Religious tolerance only went so far. Yeah. Because they really believe that this was the only way. Like, they truly believe this. So he wanted to save their souls. But he wasn't stringing them up whipping them for missing mass, you know, which is what the Spanish were doing in Mexico. Oh, wow.
And he wrote this like contemporaneously, like he wrote this at the time. I mean, it was critical at the time, which is not new. There was a lot of people critical at the time of the treatment of enslaved people.
Well, I imagine it's got to be a lot about control. Like religion was certainly a part of it. And like, you know, they have true believers and all of that sort of stuff. But then I imagine a lot of people were like, it's about control.
I don't know. I think they really believed. They really believe that they were literally saving them from an eternal health bar. I don't know. I don't know. Going about going about whipping people to death to convert them. I don't think that's a great way. No, no, I disagree.
So he did that for a couple years. You're in a bit. And in August, he arrived back in he arrived in Cadiz Bay in Spain and he visited his uncle Provencal. And I think that sounds like a fake name. But it's his uncle.
So his uncle took ill and Champlain looked after him until his death in 1601. And his uncle left him in a state in La Rochelle, France, forgiving him such good care in the last year of life. He wrote very nicely.
Oh, nice. Champlain seems like a decent bloke. Yeah. So yeah, after he's back in France and he had financial independence from his new inheritance. And he was also receiving that pension from the king because he's maybe his son.
Yeah.
As it's not like it. I think he did he did well in that war with Spain, but yeah, he wasn't like a great general. I used to young right. He was only 28.
Yeah, would have been a pilot. I guess or like, you know, would have a soldier like he was a NCO. Okay, non-commissioned officer.
He did well, but he wasn't great. He didn't save France. Right? No. So yeah, we're at 1602 1603. He's hanging around the court of his death.
I mean, who knows if Champlain knew anything. It's gossipy stuff. It's fun though. All right. So he's hanging around. Allery the fourth court and Champlain got wind of what Deschas plans were. And he's like, hell yeah, I want to, I want to go on that.
So Deschas agreed that Champlain could join and then Champlain had to get permission from the king because technically receiving a pension mean he was like, he couldn't take another job without the king's approval.
Oh, interesting. But the kings like, yes, sure go. So Champlain joined Pont-Gravé on board the ship ball Renomie. Pont-Gravé was the leader of this expedition. I think there was three ships.
Okay. Anyways, he's on the ball. Renomie. And they set out March 15th, 1603, technically the Ides of March. Oh, for it. Not great. Anyway, so they hit a nasty storm on their way, but they made it to Taitusak in May 1603. They were in Taitusak. All good. They met the innu people who were controlling the area and they realized, oh, there's like, oh, there's like a lot of innu people here. Like not just like a handful because usually they didn't have an established village there, but they had set up a camp.
Okay. Like a little over from Taitusak and what? Oh, Aluet. That's not what the innu called it, but that's what it is now. Okay.
And they were having a huge celebration for a recent victory over the Haudenosaunee. The innu. Yeah, the innu. The innu had a victory over the Haudenosaunee.
Yeah. I guess it could have, like it's always a, like, I know the Haudenosaunee are huge. It could have just been like a small little battle with them.
Or was it like a big? It was a big one. Oh, wow. Okay. Because it was like different villages, basically, or different areas because innu didn't do the villages much because they didn't grow corn and stuff.
Okay. And the older history books, they always called them the Montenie. So if you learn in school, that's who they were, but they're the innu, not innu it.
Yes. It's very confusing. I did my head in a bit to figure that out. Yeah, but sorry. So they weren't farmers. They were.
Yeah, they're hunter-gatherer. Okay. And they were more allied with the Wendat. Yeah.
Partnered more like allied sort of because an ally implies that they'll go to mutual aid. Yes. Automatically, but not like really, they didn't do that.
They would if they could meet and convince each other at the time, but it wasn't a given. Yes.
So Champlain and Pongravé, they went over to the camp and they saw this lively scene with children and dogs and women and men all gathering and just getting ready to have a.
Shinde. Yeah, they're going to party it up. And they also saw over a hundred Haudenosaunee scalps on display. Oh, okay.
The times and wounded captives with clear signs of the gruesome torture that was started in the Fishers, the description. There's things for dripping.
So Champlain and Pongravé did not bring their weapons with them like they had them on the ship. But when they went into the camp, they did not bring their weapons.
Yeah, they did learn something. They did dress for the occasion to meet the Sagamor or chief. So I always, I find a lot of history books written by Americans. They use the term Sagamor.
Okay. So I think Sagamor is a chief that might be a term used by the more southern American indigenous nations down there, like the ones on the east coast. Okay.
Not the Mi'gma but the other ones. Yeah. So the Sagamor and then down south, like Sagamor seems to be a common term. Okay.
I'm not quite sure where that lands in the tradition for indigenous people in Canada. I don't know if that lands for them. So anyways, they met with an adabiju.
He was the Inu chief that was kind of running the show there for the celebration. And then there was other Sagamors or chiefs for the other villages and groups, right? Because they all have their own kind of family and clan groupings, right? Mm-hmm.
So they were wearing their shiny armor and their plumed helmets. So they were looking great. And also there was a couple of young Inu men who had been to Paris.
Really? Because they were ships going back and forth all the time. Yeah.
So they had gone and they were like, oh, what the hell? Sure, I'll go. And so they knew some French. Okay.
So they were assisting with the chiefs meeting up. So the Frenchman joined in the celebration by sharing the feast of moose, bear, seal, beaver and foul, like geese and whatnot with the Inu.
Beaver tasted again. I never thought that it's a rodent, isn't it? It's a big, but it's like a lottery one. So I don't know. It's probably greasy. Yes. Yeah. Very greasy.
I mean, it wouldn't be my choice, but sure. So Fisher does mention a rather nasty part where a warrior was carrying around a dog and then hurled it violently to the ground and then shouted like, hoot, so, oh, oh, oh, oh, I don't like that.
And then the other warriors did that too. Anyways, there were speeches and dancing and Champlain describes the girls and women dancing in Dierskin robes and then they started taking it all off. Okay. It's a party.
Fisher describes it in his book this way. Champlain described the beauty of these girls and young women. There's supple bodies undulating before him.
I'm like, David, you took that too far. He's so unnecessary, buddy. So all in all, Champlain and his buddy, Pongrave, they had a great time at the celebration. Dog hurling, notwithstanding.
They had a very respectful interaction with Anna Wiju and the other indigenous Sagamores and the interpreters. So good times.
So after the celebration, Champlain started charting the area, starting with the Saginay River and the Tatasak Harbor.
And after that, he went on to explore with Pongrave leading the journey. He went on to explore St. Lawrence.
Okay. They went up the river to Twal Riviere, then Quebec and to Montreal. They went further, but then they were stopped by the rapids.
But Champlain did have great conversations with the indigenous guides or companions. I don't know if they're guiding.
They described what was beyond the rapids, such as Lake Ontario, the Niagara River, Niagara Falls, Lake Huron, the Ottawa River, and so on.
So he was getting, he was having these great conversations and he was kind of including this in his charting and his map about what was beyond because he had established a fairly good relationship with these people.
Not bringing weapons. Good start.
And they're not telling them, they're not taking the piss and telling them about the med with no buttholes.
Yep. And then one leg in men.
Yeah.
A land of one leg in men.
Yeah, it's full of gold and everything.
Yeah. There you go.
So on July 4th, 1603, they started making their way back down the river.
And they were back to Tato Stock by July 11th.
And from there they went on to explore the Atlantic coast for another month before heading back to France.
And they were home by the end of August.
All right.
And you know what, Champlain and Pongravade didn't do.
Didn't steal anybody.
They didn't steal anybody.
Like Cartier did.
Yeah.
Yeah, in the previous four ages.
Yeah, in the like an evil show and tell.
Yes.
They didn't do that.
So Bravo.
Or no kidnapping, I should say.
So Champlain wrote a book as soon as he got back.
Unless like the devil was helping him write it because it was ready to be published by November 1603.
We wrote it on the ship.
So in it Champlain does speak well of the indigenous people.
He had a fair amount of respect for them to a degree.
The dog crawling didn't like that.
I don't know if you like that or not.
Probably didn't really take note of that.
It was probably the undulating women.
That was maybe not quite the thing.
So he titled his book Desophage ou Voyege de Samuel de Champlain.
Yeah.
So Fisher explains the word sauvage meant forest weller.
I'm like, I don't know, man.
Sure sounds like he's a means forest weller, an old French.
And that's what Champlain meant by that.
I'm like, I'm on, dude.
Okay.
So he compares this with the term he called the people of the West Indies that we call the
people in the West Indies, Indians, except for the people in Guadalupe who lived in forests.
He called them sauvage.
But I don't know.
I think it's a stretch, man.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Take that for what you want.
But also Champlain's dream is a book I'm going to be referencing quite a bit.
It was pretty good.
But I do think that when he was writing it, he let out kind of like a little, ah, now
and then.
A little fair boy.
He really, really liked Champlain.
He's like, no, he's so dreamy.
The way he treated them, he just wanted peace.
He's looking through some rose tidget glasses.
He wanted this utopia.
And he, and also like, I think it was in the introduction, he's like, yeah, let's look
at the way that people come back, treat the indigenous people now.
And I'm like, dude.
I mean, I'm talking the people come back, including all of Canada.
We are like, I'm like, yeah, no, not great.
Because he's also comparing things for the states, right?
Okay.
And I'm like, yeah, we're not great and on a curve here, buddy.
It's still not great.
Anyways, listen, it's still a good biography.
It is interesting, but you have to read that and then you have to read a whole bunch of
other things to get a better picture so that you're not also just getting all dreamy about
Champlain and how great he was and how he was working towards creating this utopia with
the French Canadians and indigenous nations.
Peace and Concord for all.
No, not cool.
So we will be back with Champlain.
Casey's going to set off next the next year in 1604 and he screws up bad, but that's
next episode.
I'm wondering if it's starvation, freezing to death, colony collapse or like, all of
the above.
You don't have to tell me don't spoil it.
I mean, does he pull up a bit of a car chain?
Maybe.
Okay.
So you can follow me at Maple History Pod on Instagram or blue sky.
I will be starting a Patreon.
So check out the show notes.
I should be ready this week to start.
Or you can check the socials for details.
I'm starting with a monthly newsletter.
That's going to have extra info about previous episodes, maybe a little guide to sources.
If you want a deeper dive into certain topics.
We do some book reviews now and then, but you don't have to do any of that if you don't
want to.
I am very happy that you were listening to the show and that is enough.
That's it.
I appreciate people just listening more than you possibly know.
But if you're like, Hey, I really like this and I wanted to keep doing it.
You can join the Patreon if you want.
Awesome.
We're going to have a website up soon too.
We have, well, we have the ACAST one or the default one.
Yeah, just the kind of bare bones one.
Yeah.
So, we'll have a link up with transcripts and other things like that.
Yeah.
Should be good.
Kids at camp and things like that.
So we have a lot more time.
We only have one kid at home right now.
It's wild.
How peaceful it is.
Okay.
Thank you.
And I'll listen again next time.
